Duchess

clyde's picture

Comments

What? it's live?

Congratulations! To everyone else who hasn't seen it yet, PREPARE TO BE IN AWE, or aww, i dunno! But you'll enjoy it. or N'joy it.

clyde's picture

I love how the screenshot

I love how the screenshot for Duchess looks so similar to the screenshot of Zyphrandomora. It gives the impression that Duchess was influence by Zyphrandomora, which it was!

this makes me feel strangely

this makes me feel strangely uneasy

is this built with the new

is this built with the new tyrano builder everybody is talking about ?

clyde's picture

Yup.

Yup.

Yeah, I'll bite too.

I don't know about uneasy, but since I've been there and i was disassociated from the reality and being exposed prior / minor to a leak of a related development earlier, the other talking character I've seen before. I wouldn't have the fresh eyes. Almost seemed like a spinoff series and a tech of what could be done using TYRANOBUILDER.

I could see it hitting close to home with lots of people, maybe even me, hitting the liner notes/appendix in the update. For the other first responders who played and didn't comment, there's liner notes attempting to engage conversation about visual interactive productions in general and as this is really just a left click and experience kind, it's still one of those.

Uhh, I'm more of a play quietly and study, maybe share a screenshot or two in an irc channel i frequent, or multiples. I think it also establishes identity how people respond to any medium whether they post a comment/review on a movie database or just link to it on an instant message window or whatnot.

Honestly though, I was just kinda thinking it was cool that the animation was just going. no attempts to crop the animation and add transparency which added to it, like when developing it, you made it out like it JUST HAPPENED, like just now! I was more focused on the cool background with the suave d00d in the background. Lots of visual novels use live action character backgrounds but sort of dither them, like a pixel/mosaic effect. This didn't happen here but I looked at it as if it was, just either out of habit of browsing through tons of web-based vns and seeing the backdrop resources and having that image in the mind. That guy was just so suave either way.. if I made the effect, i'd probably select all, unselect an aura around him and then use the mosaic/emboss/whatever effect on everything else around. It'd be out of place, but man would it be cool. or kewl. Oh, it's the oil painting effect that's good with backgrounds to make it look all distorted and somehow got associated with visual novels. I ran it twice on this camera-voice-activated self-portrait that I'll attach to the end of this message for posterity. There's also tons of names you can use for it. Back on topic to the backdrop though, that guy is so suave.

On the note of discussion, I'm a big fan of not necessarily free games out there, but games I happened to get for free in giveaways, hidden object games and the like. I tend to nowadays buy em if they're on sale. There's one I particularly like because of the absurdity, but it's one of the few where the plot involves all the objects collected are for use in that area and collected for a purpose instead of the usual (if you're into the genre) find 12 objects in the area and at the end there's one item that you keep, though both function in my head and I contemplate the meaning of the artwork and why those items are there in the first place.

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sergiocornaga's picture

I too had a sense of

I too had a sense of uneasiness the first time I played that might relate to that suave guy. I think appropriating photographs of real people as characters in a story (presumably without their knowledge or permission) makes me feel uneasy. The effect is amplified because the suave guy is looking straight at me, and it's within a home, which feels quite personal to me. There's also the dog, which is snarling or at least trying to look aggressive. It feels at odds with the text.

clyde: I'm aware you're exploring appropriation in the games you're currently working on. I checked out Appropriation, but about half the images were broken for me.

ghettoshamrock: I've always felt the visual novel trend of putting zany filters over appropriated photographs was a cop-out that doesn't really make the practice any better ethically (or aesthetically). Also, what's the name of this game that you particularly like? For a long time I've toyed with the idea of making a hidden object game that has a logical narrative reason for the mechanic (such as being a repo man).

clyde's picture

---sergiocornega said-----"

---sergiocornega said-----
" There's also the dog, which is snarling or at least trying to look aggressive. It feels at odds with the text.
------------------------------

That is impressive detective work. Interestingly, I haven't see that video. I grabbed it from a different video that complied a bunch of dog funny faces.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a37vtRhGUV0
I think this is a particularly interesting detail especially in reference to the Appropriation game I'm working on.
Also, regarding the snarling dog feeling at odds with the text: I certainly want to hear how you respond to that aspect, but I want also want to go ahead and affirm that this aggression is part personal experiences from which I am drawing.

----sergiocornega said----
"clyde: I'm aware you're exploring appropriation in the games you're currently working on. I checked out Appropriation, but about half the images were broken for me"
----------------------------

Yeah it's an issue, I'm looking into it. BTW ghettoshamrock, I found some of that TyranoBuilder "crashiness" you were talking about. 3/4 of my foreground images show up as broken image links in my webBuild.
Edit: I just fixed it
https://s3.amazonaws.com/tyrano/2015-4-7-Appropriation/index.html

---sergiocornega said----
Also, what's the name of this game that you particularly like? For a long time I've toyed with the idea of making a hidden object game that has a logical narrative reason for the mechanic (such as being a repo man).
----------------------------
I know, right? Why you holding out?

It's called Annie's Millions

I liked it because it kinda had levels that were expected. The voice acting wasn't bad but the idea of a shopping spree was uncomfortable along with the interactions between her and her family members. It was a cool little game though. I played through it again recently but unlearned all the speedable mechanics. I always try to replay stuff over and over in the case of increasing speed of games. I also liked how replaying it there were different items to find at random and the items that aren't on the list aren't on-site. Of course the Portilla Brothers / POBROS made 3 other games in this Adventure Series that also involved all items being part of the game. I did a play through of Born into Darkness and Autumn's Treasures: The Jade Coin also by them but thought Annie's Millions is a better game to blindly come back to since it's a bit shorter. I might eventually do an annie's millions one too.

The best level I've seen in a HOG before even trying out the game is this one I found from Behind the Reflection. It was one of the few times I admired under the kitchen sink, and the absurdity of what items I found there. I included it in attachments. It's a fun adventure on its own, that screenshot

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clyde's picture

"Uhh, I'm more of a play

----ghettoshamrock said----
"Uhh, I'm more of a play quietly and study, maybe share a screenshot or two in an irc channel i frequent, or multiples. I think it also establishes identity how people respond to any medium whether they post a comment/review on a movie database or just link to it on an instant message window or whatnot."
-------------------------------------

This is a really important point and one that isn't addressed at all in that manifestoey appendix. I need to figure out how to ensure that my invitation (or call-to-action) is not seen as objectively necessary or as a discouragement towards other forms of appreciation. I'm obviously biased towards promoting the types of discussions that I will be able to find in places that I am personally comfortable with and have experience in. I can see how my strong language can imply a devaluation of other forms of discussion and silent contemplation. Hmmm. To be honest, I think I do devalue those simply because I can't participate with people in those cases. I don't think they are intentionally exclusionary, it's just that I have a hard time desiring things that I cannot sense. I had a discussion similar to this with Triplefox where they explained that their view is that one often has effects that they are not aware of (I'm paraphrasing). I took it to be in reference to my need to be aware of discussion. I want more public discussions about free, short games and I want to be aware of them so that I can find them and sample from them like a buffett of plenty. This is a selfish desire. But now, considering your reverence for quiet study, I can easily see that without it, the discussions I desire are likely to be homogeneous and uninteresting.

----ghettoshamrock said----
"That guy was just so suave either way.. if I made the effect, i'd probably select all, unselect an aura around him and then use the mosaic/emboss/whatever effect on everything else around. It'd be out of place, but man would it be cool. or kewl. Oh, it's the oil painting effect that's good with backgrounds to make it look all distorted and somehow got associated with visual novels. I ran it twice on this camera-voice-activated self-portrait that I'll attach to the end of this message for posterity. There's also tons of names you can use for it."
--------------------------------

This is an interesting idea for a few reasons. I didn't think of the suave fellow in the background as being the objective observer, I thought of his as being part of the desensitized home of the barking. My intention was that the game is played in first-person. I like your interpretation way better though. This is absolutely going to have an impact on how I design my games in the future. I don't know if I will use a halo of mosaic-effect to denote cool, but I really like the idea of putting the protagonist in the background images and hinting that this is the case. Thanks again.

----ghettoshamrock said----
"Back on topic to the backdrop though, that guy is so suave."
--------------------------------
I think my dad will be thrilled to hear that you think so.

sergiocornaga's picture

The first time I played, I

The first time I played, I saw the suave guy (your dad!? shock twist!) as "part of the desensitized home of the barking". After reading your own criticism of the game and then replaying, I saw him as the "objective observer". It fascinates me that reading about your intentions took my interpretation further away from your intentions.

He's doing much more than hanging around;

he is orchestrating the entire thing. He's an intergalactic space explorer who has settled on an excavation of a modern living room. Seeing the world for what it is. I did a portrait and a touchup digitally to find out what he was seeing, and it's ... It's nothing on the OG but it's a different perspective which could mean a lot of things.

I'll leave the attachments below lossless for someone else's need. hope this helps:

b&w greyscale color animation

clyde's picture

wow. Those are neat. If I

wow. Those are neat. If I even make another build can I use these?

Yeah, that's fine

That's why I included them all. Could theoretically start anywhere.

ihavefivehat's picture

Very cool game. It was a

Very cool game. It was a nice way to deliver a surprise essay. If I had seen it as a wall of text on a website then I might have just skimmed it really quick, but having it delivered in the text box format made me consider each sentence more carefully. I feel like this game will be important to me in the near future because it completed a lot of thoughts that I almost-but-didn't-quite have on my own. It put me in a very self-reflective mood.

This thing that we do here is weird. I don't know why I spend so much time working on these tiny, strange games. Sometimes I do it out of guilt, because I feel the need to be 'productive' (whatever that really means). Other times I feel genuinely inspired. But most of the time, I think it is a way of making myself feel less lonely. I'm a very reserved, private person to outside appearances. When I make games, I reveal a side of myself that I would not be comfortable showing to even the people who are closest to me in my life. But putting that stuff out onto the internet and having people respond to it there gives me a very positive feeling, something close to euphoria. Clyde, in the game you described that as a sort of 'high' and I think that's pretty accurate.

I feel like I'm not good at responding to other people's games. Considering that many of my own games would be ugly and unapproachable to most people, I should be better at accepting those qualities in other people's. Also, considering how good getting feedback from other people makes me feel, I should be more willing to do the same for others. I want to get better at it, and I think your game will help with that.

everythingstaken's picture

Blake's Critique.

This game is more of an essay than a game!

I do agree with the essay. It is hard to force people to critique things though especially since gTrWx is so casual, though I wouldn't mind talking about things critically... It's fun! I think it would be easier to do it here than Game Jolt or anything else really just because I think people here might be a little more willing, but I also think some of the people here would be way less willing to participate in any sort of critique. I have definitely gotten some strange dadaist comments on this site that I can't make heads or tails of and I think that is part of the charm of this website. I can't even tell if me talking this much seriously is breaking the mystique of gTrWx.

Anyhow. Duchess! I think it's interesting that really the only agency that you have in this game really comes in the form of quitting the game before the essay or not. I personally like the idea of having sort of purposefully easily passable gates for large amounts of content. I have done that with several games of mine. I think sometimes it's a bad idea because then sometimes people won't see what's maybe interesting about the game nor will they have any idea that they missed anything. Is that the player's fault? Huh? Well, I think it's a co-dependent fault of the player's lack of exploration and the creator's lack of showing what is ahead on the fork in the road. I think what you did was a pretty clear fork which is why I think this was effective and interesting as the one point of agency of the game. Giving a great sense of agency for each amount of input is interesting and I think the feedback for a small amount of agency in this game is great.

Uh yeah. Critique as many games of mine as you want! I like critique. How will I grow as a person otherwise? Some people reject or do not like critique as some people think they are perfect. While I guess I am making hobbyist games for free on the internet it wouldn't hurt to uh, idk, make games that even I think are better. I can't say that I have made an artistic equivalent to Castlevania 10 or No More Heroes 2 or Marathon or Cave Story or La Mulana or You Have to Put the Spider in the Jack--O-Lantern or Revenge of the Sunfish, so I think I'll keep trying.

If you want to critique my critique that would be fair.

clyde's picture

The thing I didn't consider

The thing I didn't consider when I put that essay in the game was that only the people who typically play my games will read the essay. I need to put this game up on Gamejolt maybe. The thing is, if someone is playing my games, I probably already get critique from them. I had this non-existent audience in my mind that both will play Duchess, read the appendix, and who don't really talk about hobbyist games.
When I published the first version of Duchess, it just stopped and didn't signify an end at all; clicks just stopped doing anything. When I went back in to put some finality there I just started thinking that the commercial-game audience probably wouldn't know how to think of Duchess as a success, so I decided to explain it to them (with Duchess as an example) in order for them to be more open to games that have this weird narrative/non-objective experiential quality. I forgot that the only people who would play it would be people who are already playing narrative/non-objective hobbyist games.

everythingstaken's picture

Know yo audience

I feel like you'd have to put it on New Grounds, Kongregate, or better yet get it on Steam Greenlight or XBLA rather than Game Jolt.

ihavefivehat's picture

I think Game Jolt is a start, though

They have a similar perspective to GT in that they focus on small hobbyist games, but they also seem slightly less open to weird or 'crude' looking stuff.. I'd be interested to see it at least. Newgrounds would definitely be interesting too.

You gotta be brave to put it on newgrounds

And of course pass judgment too. It's feedback though. Like when put on Newgrounds it gets put on a page that people look to critique, for better or worse. Kongregate doesn't take HTML5 packets automatically, I think you have to manually send a letter asking for them to take it and the whole thing seems more iffy than newgrounds.

Game Jolt's okay in that they just simply take it and that's that. They use the harrison ford term there a little loose for my tastes in that it loses its meaning, but I suppose there's that too. I don't know about XBLA/Steam but those are options too. The first time fee's a little hefty and you have to rely on the voting system and the general public, so I guess if you wanna pay for it you could get feedback that way.

Or you could post it as an artform on deviantart and request critique that way. If you're paying for the supermember you can use the request critique button. Otherwise look around and there's people that'll do it without the plus ship too.