I deleted an account today.

SpindleyQ's picture

I have banned Selfish Dream and deleted their games.

I'll give you all the same reasons I gave them:
- A harassment campaign was started against one of our members which resulted in death threats being sent for days after negative comments Selfish Dream made about their apparent belief that racism & sexism is bad.

- It came to my attention that Selfish Dream posted a game that appears to be about being a violent rapist, with explicitly graphic, threatening language in the description. Games about sexual violence that are at best indifferent about who they might hurt do not have a place on Glorious Trainwrecks.

Their response made it clear to me that they do not have any desire to engage with criticism of their work, and they don't appear to believe they have a responsibility to ensure people in this community are not hurt by their words or their work. Quite frankly, they didn't appear concerned that anyone here was hurt at all, just that they were not seen as responsible. For this reason I do not feel comfortable hosting their work.

Everything I said the last time I deleted a game remains true. I would like to address one particular thing Selfish Dream brought up in their response to me:
"I thought Glorious Trainwrecks supported freedom of speech and artistic expression."

Glorious Trainwrecks has always been about being a comfortable place where people are kind to each other. I've been part of many toxic forums & communities on the internet in the past, and since I started the site 11 years ago, it has always been my primary goal to ensure that Glorious Trainwrecks does not become one. Quite frankly, it has been the only constant goal - people coming here with the goal of contributing positively to this community should feel welcomed.

I want to be clear: it is OK to make games about difficult subjects, and it's OK to fuck up! But if someone tells you that your game is irresponsible, that your words are hurtful, that you inadvertently caused them harm, it is not OK to brush off their criticism. Glorious Trainwrecks works only if we are able to trust each other, if we listen to, respect, and support each other. Good-faith communication is harder than "free speech", but that is what is expected here.

One more thing: I definitely think it is not tenable for me to be the only moderator on this site. I used to read every post and play every game; I haven't had that level of involvement for years. I only see this stuff because people flag it to me. I would rather the community to have the tools to be empowered to handle situations like this on their own. What exactly this looks like, I'm not certain. But please comment or PM me with ideas, people you would trust to be moderators, or to volunteer.

mno's picture

Thank you for your handling

Thank you for your handling of this situation and for writing this post.

danyburton's picture

doesn't this site have a

doesn't this site have a Kimberly Kubus backup
https://youtu.be/WKd0FxDIN7c

SpindleyQ's picture

Yes, I do, though it is not

Yes, I do, though it is not part of the main glorioustrainwrecks.com site, and it should probably have a content warning on it and some context about who Kimberly Kubus was, at least. If the existence of this archive on this site makes people uncomfortable, I would certainly revisit that decision.

I also have a Jazzuo backup, but after engaging with its content I decided I did not want to host it.

I must stress, again, that I did not make this decision based solely on the content of their games, but because of their unwillingness to consider the consequences of their actions, and their disregard for other members of the community. Like I said, directly, in the post: you can make the games you want, you can make mistakes making them, but if you make marginalized members of our community feel unsafe, you need to be willing to take responsibility for that, and to show that you are working to prevent that from reoccurring. I have seen enough unwillingness from Selfish Dream to acknowledge a problem with their behaviour that I am personally not comfortable hosting them here.

everythingstaken's picture

Just Curious

Just curious as to what was in some of Jazzuo's content. I really only discovered his work through a professor's recommendation a couple years ago. The only game that felt bad at all was the bikini pogo one, but it just felt absurd to me, but I could see someone being offended by that.

SpindleyQ's picture

The game that put me into

The game that put me into "absolutely not" territory was bad enough that I'm going to put it in white text: It was called "RAPE", and was literally a gang rape RTS where you controlled a group of men roaming around a town assaulting women. Jazzuo stated that in creating it, he was trying to portray the subject neutrally, passing no judgement on whether gang rape was a good or bad thing.

everythingstaken's picture

oh boy

Making that game is one thing, but saying that they aren't passing any judgement on that act is pretty abhorrent.

danyburton's picture

this does worry me a little

it worries me a little that kimberly kubus's content could very well be erased. Particularly considering that collections of his work are fragmentary at best anyway. Admittedly the site mirror that was here has been copied to another site now so it's not such a big deal. I guess people who like things just have to take responsibility for maintaining content they like rather than expecting people who don't like it to do it.
I was annoyed about the censorship at first but I think it makes sense that you can choose to steer your community the way that you wish to steer it, selfish has not been banished from the internet or something. I think that possibly the "trainwreck" idea can imply some more liberality, especially the celebration of artists like kimberly kubus and others, but I guess there is nothing to be done about that.

let-off-studios's picture

Thoughts

I didn't know that Selfish Dream was causing people problems beyond the content of their games. That's sad to hear. I was hoping that kid would have turned around. For the record I am (one of?) those people who called Selfish Dream out on some of their game content as inappropriate (that which highlighted violence against women in particular). I figured if anyone was going to be targeted for harassment, I was just as likely as anyone else.

Also, it's interesting to see - once again - the tendency that those who scream for "free speech" protection are those the most defensive against, and critical of, those who use their own freedom of speech to provide legitimate critique of their works... Totally unfortunate. Hope the kid learns from this.

InfernalBeast's picture

Sad Fate

Selfish Dream is a good man though,
Also why treat it like an actual abuse/rape simulator or whatever? If i'm not wrong, it's just an extra-artistic shooter without any explicit moments (except, maybe in cutscene texts).

By the way, i noticed that my game, "Bathroom Gang Bang 3: The Final Bang" is now "hidden" - does not appear neither on my page, nor in the games list, what went wrong?

SpindleyQ's picture

There was a complaint about

There was a complaint about it a few months ago and I did take the step of unpublishing it; I intended to mention this to you in a PM immediately but I didn't get to it right away and then forgot. That was a serious failure on my part, and I strongly apologize for it. If you want to discuss it further we can talk here or in private, as you prefer.

InfernalBeast's picture

About my game

Oh okay, no problem then. It's available on my site, so no problem for me. It was just a bit weird that it dissapeared out of nowhere.

SpindleyQ's picture

Thank you for understanding.

Thank you for understanding.

clyde's picture

I didn't play the game in

I didn't play the game in question, but the description-page for it alone was something I consider misogynistic, abhorrent, and unwelcoming.

let-off-studios's picture

Game Impressions

Long story short: I don't know the guy. I am only basing my comments on the works he'd posted here at GT.

I personally think he was trying to titillate his intended audience, not scare them away. Other (that is, reasonable) folks, on the other hand, would clearly be alerted by the text, and I'm glad the game was removed. I'd rather see games wholly different from his on this site, as opposed to allowing it based on dubious notions of artistic merit - particularly if the creator is hostile to critique.

Meanwhile, I think I remember at least playing Bathroom Gang Bang 3. I didn't make it very far. It was a toughie.

Macabre's picture

I know Selfish Dream from

I know Selfish Dream from the Sunfish community, just like Infernal and Dany. SD is an interesting man to talk to, his thoughts on immortality and the concept of "ultimate being" were an interesting theme for philosophical debates. However, this very person tried to make me feel bad when another immature-minded forum user became angry at me when I openly stated my opinion on a particular game (with no personal assault). Selfish Dream supported my opponent by saying to me that "If you're looking for trouble, it's bound to find you", implying that I should feel sorry for expressing my opinion and getting that reaction. In other words, he told me to shut up. Certainly not a course of actions a true supporter of "free speech" would take. It even made me leave the forums in disgust, despite the fact that it meant leaving a community of very nice people. As far as I know, he claimed to have joined the army and expressed his macho bravado by posting regular "Army Updates" on Sunfish Forums and assaulting me and Infernal for leaving Sunfish community in a fit of the "manliness" he received from the military service, telling us to basically accept and "face the new forums". We rejoined, but for completely different reasons (I received Dany's invitation).

I am a fair supporter of women's rights, and personally I believe that sexism is far from being a trait of a cultured and intelligent individual. It's simply a rather commonplace affliction. And I don't think it makes people creative and smart. I think the deletion was a right decision, even if for personal reasons, as it may seem. I hope he remembers what he wrote to me about seeking trouble.

InfernalBeast's picture

Army Updates

It was not his choice to join the army though, he was conscripted.
Fuck military conscription by the way!!!

Macabre's picture

Yes, screw it! Evading is

Yes, screw it! Evading is the only way! Army=Jail! Kubus and Zappa were right. I think SD could have evaded the draft in his situation, but decided to go deliberately, judging from his pride. It's a detail of his personal life and ideals of course, but it does relate to the way he behaved "in public", I think.

beanstalk's picture

Thank you for doing this.

Thank you for doing this. Speaking as someone who has had multiple run-ins with SD in another community, I can assure you that you've done the right thing.

Danni's picture

FYI, I ended up deleting

FYI, I ended up deleting Sushininja's account because they changed their introductory post to a blatantly racist image. They also deleted all their games so I get the impression that they didn't want to be around here anymore.

pensive-mosquitoes